Rosenfeld Review Podcast

Harry Max on Managing Priorities

Harry Max is an executive coach, consultant, and hands-on product design and development leader. He’s also the author of the forthcoming Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions.
For individuals, teams, and organizations, from managing things, people, places, rules, activities, and projects, Harry’s new book Managing Priorities gets to the heart of how we prioritize and make and implement decisions, whether one-off or events that happen on a regular basis. 
Harry uses DEGAP, a design-thinking framework that he says he didn’t invent but discovered, to explain how successful organizations and leaders set, implement, and execute priorities. DEGAP closes the gap between a current state and a desired state:
D - decide 
E - Engage (commit to the process)
G - gather (collect information and items to prioritize)
A - arrange (sort and create frameworks)
P - prioritize
Harry and Lou also discuss the importance of flexible thinking (a superpower of designers) when it comes to prioritization, communication, and implementation. 
What you’ll learn from this episode:
How Harry went from technical writer to designer to executive coach to SXSW speaker to author
What DEGAP is, why it makes a difference when dealing with prioritization, and how Harry discovered it
Why DEGAP is like a design-thinking framework
The unique prioritization challenges designers face
The unique gifts designers bring to addressing prioritization
 
Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:26] Introduction of Harry 
[0:01:59] A discussion on prioritization
[0:04:27] Orders of prioritization
[0:07:39] Distinguishing priorities of the individual, team, and organization – DEGAP
[0:12:26] More about DEGAP at the individual and organizational levels
[0:15:39] Advancing Research 2024, March 25-27
[0:17:13] Review of Harry’s career path
[0:23:47] Unique prioritization challenges for designers
[0:26:25] Harry’s gift for the listeners
 
Resources and links from today’s episode:
Managing Priorities: How to Create Better Plans and Make Smarter Decisions by Harry Max
Advancing Research Conference 2024 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/2024/
4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman https://www.amazon.com/Four-Thousand-Weeks-Management-Mortals/dp/0374159122
Oliver Burkeman’s Maestro course https://www.bbcmaestro.com/courses/Oliver%20Burkeman/time-management 
 
Quotes from today’s episode:
“We’re brilliant at first-order prioritization.”
“[Prioritization] needs to be a first-class citizen when we bring our evolved jungle selves into the workplace.”
“You have to prioritize prioritization.” 
“DEGAP is really nothing more than a design-thinking framework.”
“Design helps people think. We need to not be so attached to the discipline of design as we are attached to the discipline of thinking.” 
“Designers have a different way of seeing the world. It’s kind of this outside-in, inside-out ability to zoom in and zoom out and look at things from a process point of view and recognize that the process is not the thing. It’s just an enabler.”

Taking Notes and Nurturing Your Knowledge Garden with Jorge Arango

Jorge Arango is an Information architect, author, and educator, and he’s written a new book, Duly Noted, about the age-old practice of notetaking. 
If you’re like me, you’ve been taking notes since your school days. Back then, we used notebooks, a Trapper Keeper, and sticky notes – anything that could help us ace a test, remember important tidbits, and consolidate ideas. Notes are an extension of the mind. But it was always a headache to organize them, synthesize them, and recall them at the right time.  
Enter the digital age – which tried to improve on the humble art of notetaking, but apps like Notes and Stickies tried to replicate digitally what we were using in the real world. Newer apps like Obsidian let go of real-world metaphors by utilizing three principles: shorter notes, connecting your notes, and nurturing your notes to build a knowledge garden that will serve you for the rest of your life. 
If you bring value to the world through your thinking, you have the responsibility to look after your thinking apparatus. Duly Noted will augment, magnify, and extend your capacity to think well. Externalizing your mental processes is one of the most powerful means we have to think better. If used well, the humble note will help you be a better thinker and a more effective human.
What you’ll learn from this episode:
A history of notetaking tools
Why notetaking is a personal endeavor
How digital notetaking tools have evolved
About Jorge’s new book and how, upon reading it, you just might become a better thinker and increase your effectiveness
 
Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:12] Introduction of Jorge and his books
[0:01:18] Introduction of Jorge’s new book on taking notes and creating a knowledge garden, Duly Noted
[0:09:47] Books that will make you a better knowledge worker
[0:14:14] Design in Product Conference 
[0:15:35] Managing knowledge with computers
[0:26:03] Knowledge as a garden
[0:28:09] On tools for nurturing a knowledge garden
[0:33:08] How Jorge uses AI with Obsidian
[0:36:37] Jorge’s gift for listeners 
 
Resources and links from today’s episode:
Information Architecture for the Web and Beyond by Louis Rosenfeld, Peter Morville, and Jorge Arango  https://www.amazon.com/Information-Architecture-Beyond-Louis-Rosenfeld/dp/1491911689 
Living in Information: Responsible Design for Digital Places by Jorge Arango  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/living-in-information/ 
Duly Noted by Jorge Arango  https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/duly-noted-extend-your-mind-through-connected-notes/
O’Reilly’s book Mind Hacks by Tom Stafford  https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/mind-hacks/0596007795/ 
Tools for Thought by Howard Rheingold  www.rheingold.com/texts/tft/ 
Design in Product Conference, November 29 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product/ 
Roam Research https://roamresearch.com/ 
Obsidian https://obsidian.md/ 
The Extended Mind: The Power of Thinking Outside the Brain by Annie Murphy Paul https://anniemurphypaul.com/books/the-extended-mind/ 
Figure it Out: Getting from Information to Understanding by Karl Fast and Stephen Anderson https://www.amazon.com/Figure-Out-Getting-Information-Understanding-ebook/dp/B085412Q1X 
Build a PKG (Personal Knowledge Garden) Workshop https://buildapkg.com 
Quotes from today’s episode:
“The act of putting pen to paper serves as a way to jog your mind into thinking through the steps that are necessary to complete the project.” 
“Externalizing your mental processes is one of the most powerful means we have to think better.”
“Creating joy for yourself and expanding cognitive abilities – what could be better?”

Creating a More Impactful Business While Still Feeling Like a Designer with Ellen Chisa

Have you ever felt like the product people want to move too fast? You realize that speed is important, but the quality of the product is going to suffer and the results are going to disappoint.
Or have you ever wished you had a seat at the table during the initial strategy sessions of a new project, rather than being brought in mid-stream?
Do you feel intimidated when talking to the folks on the business and finance side of your organization?
If so, this episode is for you. Ellen Chisa has a background in engineering and an MB. She is a founder, venture capitalist, and partner at Boldtart Ventures. In short, she has to care about the business side of things. But she also cares about user-oriented product design, and she wants the voices of those in the design space to be heard.
The best place to start, she asserts, might be by listening and learning. Ellen encourages designers to familiarize themselves with their organization’s business models and financials. If you’re feeling squirmy about that prospect, Ellen lays out a workable approach that will put both you and the business analyst at ease. 
Ellen’s goal is to help you create more business impact while still feeling like a designer.  Ellen will be the opening keynote at the November 29 Design in Product virtual conference.  
 
What you’ll learn from this episode:
About Ellen Chisa’s background, her current position, and the contribution she’ll make at the Design in Product Conference 2023
Where Ellen sees the future going—combining APIs with generative AI
Why designers will benefit from learning about the business and financial side of their organization
How a designer can approach a business person with ease and curiosity
A strategy for getting a seat at the table for the initial strategy sessions of a project
 
Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:20] Introduction of Ellen Chisa and Design in Product Conference
[0:02:22] The double diamond approach to design
[0:04:09] Potent combinations of design tools
[0:05:02] Ellen looking ahead at where technology will go
[0:07:08] Creating more business impact while still feeling like a designer
[0:09:45] How to get a financial toolkit for designers
[0:12:08] Accessible metrics for non-business people
[0:17:32] Design Ops Summit, October 2-6, 2023 
[0:19:02] Feeling like a designer and building a coalition
[0:21:12] How to slow the cadence
[0:23:04] Is it better to focus on revenue and growth or derisking?
[0:25:09] Advice for those who feel reserved about approaching others
[0:27:06] Ellen’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and links from today’s episode:
Design in Product Conference 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product/ 
Readwise – save notes from books https://readwise.io/ 
Obsidian https://obsidian.md/ 
 
Quotes from today’s episode:
“How do I get a new lens? The most approachable way is to figure out the direct tie-in to what they’re working on right now.” 
“I think most junior business people would be happy to hear from a designer. I think they would often think of it as a compliment.”
“No matter what role you’re sitting in in an organization, you’re trying to aggregate a bunch of different viewpoints together and come to the best possible answer. And you’re never going to know everything.” 
“It’s always helpful to have an idea of what’s coming around the corner.”
“There are ways designers can help their team to allow them to feel more like a design, and there are also ways designers can let themself off the hook and give themselves more tools without thinking it’s a big compromise to their mission.”

The Beautiful Mess of Product Development with John Cutler

Today’s interview is just a taste of what you’ll learn at Rosenfeld’s upcoming Design in Product conference—featuring John Cutler’s closing keynote. John is the senior director of product management at Toast, a doodler, a former band member, a UX researcher, and business analyst. He’s also the prolific writer behind “The Beautiful Mess, a Substack newsletter with over 36,000 subscribers, where he writes about cross-functional product management—especially the messy parts. 
As someone who likes “messy, creative endeavors” and building things with other people,  John enjoys unpacking the complicated parts of collaboration, getting to the heart of messes, and finding a way forward involves much more than identifying patterns. 
John finds that each person’s frame or perspective is only one of many. This is one reason the relationship between product and design is a complicated ecosystem, and the whole system—not just a part—needs to evolve together.    
In an effort to reach consensus across teams, John notes that it’s easy to fall into the alignment trap where the so-called alignment is fragile and where consensus becomes more valued than a true solution.  John encourages listeners to get comfortable with the complicated mess, to truly listen to multiple frames and perspectives while holding onto their own, and then to roll up their sleeves and explore a way forward together. 
What you’ll learn from this episode:
About John’s background and his brief stint in a band that opened for others
About the upcoming Design in Product conference
About the messiness of product development and problem-solving
About avoiding the traps of alignment and over-simplification
 
Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:24] Introduction of John Cutler and Design in Product 2023, and the back story behind “The Beautiful Mess”
[0:05:01] Patterns in messes
[0:10:23] The relationship between product and design
[0:14:11] Dealing with varying work speeds and perspectives 
[0:20:32] Design Ops Summit, October 2-6, 2023
[0:21:45] The alignment trap and the simplification trap
[0:30:50] A new metaphor for looking at teams in organizations
[0:34:04] John’s special words for listeners
Resources and links from today’s episode:
Design in Product 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/events/ 
The Beautiful Mess, John Culter’s Substack https://cutlefish.substack.com/
Images of Organization by Gareth Morgan https://www.amazon.com/Images-Organization-Gareth-Morgan/dp/0761906320/ 
 
Quotes from today’s episode:
“You can fool yourself into thinking you know what’s going on by your ability to pattern match, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you have a perfect sense of what’s going on.” 
“I can’t think about product development without thinking of it as a group endeavor.” 
“Teams were trying so hard to align that they weren’t developing coherent models of the problem they were trying to sort through.”

Pain and Curiosity Precede Successful Design Systems Change with Dan Mall

While we’ve been developing design systems for years, we’re only just now learning how to create systems that are successful and sustainable. Dan Mall is the author of the soon-to-be released Design That Scales: Creating a Sustainable Design System Practice, which explores the cultural elements that contribute to sustainable design systems.  
Not surprisingly, it’s usually pain that motivates change. In fact, companies occupying the number one spot in their respective markets usually have the least incentive  to change. As the saying goes, “Number two tries harder.” But even in the most-ready-for-change scenarios, design systems sit, at best, at a third level of priority. Dan asserts that the challenge is to approach design systems as a byproduct of the products and features that bring customers value. Otherwise, design systems will always be on the backburner. 
Dan and Lou discuss tricky topics around design systems:
Designers’ fear of job loss to design systems.
As we move toward sustainable design systems, who should make the decisions? Who does what and when? 
How to approach design systems in a sustainable way.
The best way for product and systems teams to collaborate.
What you’ll learn from this episode:
Why culture, rather than product maturity, will determine whether design systems are successful
How to address fears of job loss as a result of design systems
How to keep people motivated through a systems change
How product and design teams can work together efficiently
How design systems have changed over time
The role of governance in systems change
Why following precedent within your company will get you farther faster
 
Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:32] Introduction of Dan Mall and his book Design that Scales – Creating a Sustainable Design System Practice
[0:04:49] On reaching cultural alignment
[0:07:01] What prompts design systems change 
[0:09:26] When jobs feel threatened
[0:12:21] Cultural signs and markers of design system success 
[0:16:59] November 29th, 2023 – Design in Product Conference
[0:18:20] On governance and sustainability
[0:24:44] On collaboration between product and design teams
[0:27:33] The evolution of design systems for ICs
[0:30:35] Design Systems University
[0:32:38] Dan’s gift to listeners
 
Resources and links from today’s episode:
Design in Product Conference on November 29, 2023 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/design-in-product
Design Systems University https://designsystem.university/ 
The Useful School https://usefulschool.com 
 
Quotes from today’s episode:
“Design systems are as old as humans are.”
“A lot of people learn design systems by doing them poorly and learning from failure. I can help people learn from success more than learning from failure on their own.
“Design systems are culture change disguised as a UI kit.” - Lauren LoPrete
“Open-mindedness and curiosity are welcome signs for change.” 
“It’s not enough to create a design system or design system practice. It’s got to be sustainable.”

Creating Insights through Analysis and Synthesis with Steve Portigal

Believe it or not, Steve Portigal’s UX research classic Interviewing Users came out ten years ago, back in 2013. A few things about user research have changed since then, to put it mildly, so we at Rosenfeld did two things: we convinced Steve to write a second edition (coming out October 17), and to join us on the Rosenfeld Review to discuss all the things that have changed.
In addition to being an author, Steve is a user researcher, consultant, and teacher. He helps companies grow their businesses, culture, and brands by interviewing users. He also helps companies build more mature in-house research practices.  
Having been on both sides of the interviewing process – as both interviewer and interviewee – Steve can empathize with both roles. Over the last decade, he has seen user research evolve from a focus on consumer products to company culture and supportive technologies in the B2B space. 
Effective research, in addition to data gathering, involves analysis and synthesis. Steve defines analysis as breaking bigger things into smaller things and synthesis as putting what was broken down back together into a new framework, or insight. This is where the magic of research happens. A chapter dedicated to the art of analysis and synthesis is one of the profound additions to this latest edition of his book.
What you’ll learn from this episode:
About Interviewing Users and what’s new in the second edition
About Steve’s work as a researcher, author, and consultant and how his work has shifted over the last decade
Changes in the research field and why most of us are researchers to one degree or another, even if it’s not in your title or job description
How analysis and synthesis are different and why both are needed for insights
About the “We already knew that” response many researchers get and what it really means 
Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:19] Introduction of Steve Portigal
[0:04:30] Experience on both sides of the interview process
[0:08:06] Shifts in language and jargon Steve has noted over the last decade 
[0:12:13] The evolution of user research – less with consumers and more within businesses or B2B
[0:15:10] Speculation on where the leading edge of user research will be – or perhaps more importantly, who will be doing it – in another 10  years
[0:19:02] Rosenfeld Media Communities
[0:21:17] What’s new in the 2nd Edition version of Interviewing Users – analysis, synthesis, and insights
[0:28:38] “We already knew that” phenomenon that researchers often encounter
[0:32:20] Steve’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and links from today’s episode:
Interviewing Users (2nd edition) by Steve Portigal https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/interviewing-users-second-edition/ 
Doorbells, Danger, and Dead Batteries: User Research War Stories by Steve Portigal https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/user-research-war-stories/ 
“How-to with John Wilson” on HBO https://www.hbo.com/how-to-with-john-wilson 
Quotes from today’s episode:
“We don’t read from a script. We try to follow the person, see where they are, and look for cues.”
“It’s the growth of UX, of products, of all the disciplines that come together to try to make better products that are better suited to people.”
“It’s not will be there research but will there be researchers.”
“If you don’t do the analysis and synthesis, you lose so much of the value of the research that you’ve done.” 
“Great research feels true. We’re not in the business of big reveal, ah-ha surprises. . .We’re in the business of crystalizing something fundamental and profound.”

Decentralizing Power through Design with Sahibzada Mayed and Lauren Lin

Sahibzada Mayed and Lauren Lin will be speakers at the upcoming DesignOps Summit on October 2-4, 2023. Their talk, “Cultivating Design Ecologies of Care, Community, and Collaboration,” will showcase the intersection of care-centeredness and design operations. 
Lauren has wanted to be a designer since she was in third grade. What kind of designer? An “everything” designer! From a young age, she embraced the idea that “you can design anything” from fashion to environments to moods and feelings. Today she employs ethical research practices and co-design to shift power and amplify youth voices, design toys, and bring play into her work at Ideo Play Lab.
Mayed has a social service and social impact background. Through a community-oriented storytelling approach, they co-lead strategy and research at Cause and Affect, a relational design consultancy in Canada.  
Lauren and Mayed’s partnership began with conversations and exploration about what they could do to shift power dynamics and create more cohesive and engaging designs for all. The biggest hindrance, say Lauren and Mayed, is power hierarchies. Design leaders need to critically think about social identities, institutional positions, and other complexities and dimensions. How power shows up in our practices is always shifting and changing, and decentralizing power has to be an ongoing and emergent process.
And it all starts with ideas and conversations.  Mayed and Lauren have found that speculative design is a powerful way to reflect on the “now” and dream about what the future could look like. All real-world shifts begin with ideas, relationships, and conversations. These elements are at the heart of design. 
What you’ll learn from this episode:
About Lauren and Mayed’s backgrounds
How their partnership came about
About the talk titled “Cultivating Design Ecologies of Care, Community, and Collaboration” that they will deliver at October’s DesignOps Summit
About power hierarchies in design and what design leaders can do to help decentralize power
About the role and potential of speculative design
Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:19] Introduction of Sahibzada Mayed and Lauren Lin
[0:01:03] Mayed and Lauren’s backgrounds
[0:05:53] The working partnership between Mayed and Lauren
[0:08:45] Power hierarchies and design
[0:11:56] The DesignOps leader’s role
[0:15:26] Alternative means of engagement
[0:18:36] DesignOps Summit, October 2-6, 2023
[0:19:59] A care-centered approach to the future through establishing patterns
[0:24:37] Mayed and Lauren’s gifts for the audience
Resources and links from today’s episode:
Ideo Play Lab – https://ideoplaylab.com/
Cause + Affect – https://causeandaffect.com/
Planet Justice Textbook from Slow Factory – https://shop.slowfactory.earth/products/planet-justice-textbook
“The Mind-Body Check for Radical Research” Google doc - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OBViDEMBh9lYndX-_gNI_5LNMPfMFhCA-Mek6M-VnGI/edit
DesignOps Assembly - https://www.designopsassembly.com/ 
 
Quotes from today’s episode:
“Design is not just visual or fashion or environment, but it is about the intersections and about how design is about a feeling, a community. And you can design anything.” 
“We have to be in good, ethical relationships with ourselves, each other, the lands that we’re on, and the ecosystems that we inhabit.”
“Care is at the center of relationships, and you can’t produce anything if it’s not centered around care and those relationships.”
“We truly need to decentralize power in order to understand what an ecology could look and feel like.” 
“Power structures play and intersect all the time when we’re engaging with each other.”
“How we practice the future is in the present moment.”

A Proactive Approach to Inclusive Design with Zariah Cameron

Zariah Cameron is Co-Director of Community + Research and the founder of AEI – Advocate, Educate, Innovate Black Design. She will be a speaker at October’s DesignOps Summit on streamlining an inclusive design practice. 
Many companies and corporations have good intentions when it comes to inclusive design. But too often that’s where things both start and stop. Zariah helps companies operationalize their inclusive design principles and ideals by looking at design from all angles and instilling effective processes. 
When exploring ideals of equity and inclusivity, many confuse inclusivity with accessibility. Accessibility is a fine place to start, but it’s just the beginning. Accessibility tends to be passive while inclusivity is active. Inclusive design proactively seeks out the marginalized, the underserved, and minority groups. It doesn’t make assumptions but seeks input, feedback, and follow-through. 
For many companies, the most effective way to pursue inclusive design is to work with grassroots organizations. Partnering with such organizations provides corporations access to a diverse pool of participants. It’s a process of co-creation and involves a long-haul-relationship mentality.  
Zariah mentions a variety of organizations that design teams could partner with to access diverse talent:
Creative Reaction Lab
Pause and Effect
Aroko Cooperative – seeking equity, liberation, community healing, and ecocentricy
 
What you’ll learn from this episode:
About Zariah’s talk at the upcoming October 2024 DesignOps Summit
How inclusive design differs from accessibility
How companies can proactively partner with organizations to access a wide range of underserved and marginalized participants 
Quick Reference Guide
[0:00:37] Introduction of Zariah
[0:02:04] Inclusive design
[0:04:11] An example of a principle that needs to be operationalized
[0:05:25] How to take a more operational approach to inclusive design
[0:08:04] Inclusivity is active, not passive. It’s also relational.
[0:14:18] Inclusivity is relational and communal 
[0:15:03] More on the AEI organization
[0:17:24] Other work with HBCU students
[0:19:40] A reminder about the October 2-4 DesignOps Summit
[0:20:48] Organizations to partner with to advance inclusivity and equity
[0:24:21] Zariah’s gift for listeners
Resources and links from today’s episode:
Creative Reaction Lab - https://crxlab.org/ 
Pause and Effect - https://www.pauseandeffect.ca/ 
Aroko Cooperative - https://www.aroko.coop/
State of the Black Design Conference in March 2024 - https://www.thesobd.com/ 
DesignOps Assembly - https://www.designopsassembly.com/ 
 
Quotes from today’s episode:
“Certain companies, foundationally, their idea of inclusive design is just the tip of the iceberg when they could be going deeper than what they are actually doing.”
“You can’t have assumptions of what you think these different groups need.” 
“Ask them what they need and what their challenges are.”