Rosenfeld Review Podcast

From Efficiency to Imagination with Josh Clark and Veronika Kindred

AI is opening the door to a new era of design—but most teams are still focused on making their existing work faster rather than reimagining what’s possible. Lou talks with Josh Clark and Veronica Kindred about their new book, Sentient Design, and what it takes to design truly intelligent interfaces.
They introduce the idea of “practical magic”—starting with bold, even impossible wishes and then working backward to create real, deliverable experiences. Rather than defaulting to chatbots and efficiency gains, they argue that AI enables entirely new interaction models, from adaptive interfaces to agents that collaborate directly within products.
The conversation also explores how design systems and past UX practices lay the groundwork for this shift, while designers themselves must unlearn habits that limit creativity. Through their “sentient design sprint” and “minimum magical product” framework, Josh and Veronica offer a structured way to move from imagination to implementation.
At its core, this episode is a call for designers to reclaim their role as inventors—embracing AI not just as a tool, but as a new design material for creating more responsive, dynamic, and human-centered experiences.
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why AI is a new “design material,” not just a productivity tool
How “practical magic” helps teams rethink what’s possible
Why designers are stuck focusing on process instead of product innovation
What adaptive, intelligent interfaces could look like in practice
How the “sentient design sprint” turns ideas into real solutions
What designers need to unlearn to work effectively with AI
Quick Reference Guide:
0:13 - Meet Josh and Veronika and learn about their new Rosenfeld Media book
3:14 - Harnessing magical thinking with AI
9:19 - Moving beyond process, speed, and efficiency
13:11 - How designers can transition from tooling to inventing
16:53 - Exciting places the magic could take us
23:40 - 5 reasons to use the Rosenverse
25:52 - The Sentient Design Sprint
30:08 - The Sentient Triangle
33:36 - Is this applicable to non-traditional designers? Or what designers need to unlearn?
39:56 - Josh and Veronica’s gifts for listeners
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Sentient Design: Crafting Intelligent Interfaces with AI by Josh Clark and Veronika Kindred https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/sentient-design/
Designing with AI 2026 - June 9, 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designing-with-ai/ 
Enchanted Objects: Innovation, Design, and the Future of Technology by David Rose https://www.amazon.com/Enchanted-Objects-Innovation-Design-Technology/dp/1476725640 
This is Running: A Celebration of the World of Running, Exploring the Culture, History, Brands, Races and People Behind It by Raziq Rauf https://www.amazon.com/This-Running-Celebration-Exploring-Culture/dp/1837330425?crid=10LYBYV063BKK&dib 
 
Quotes:
“We try to get in touch with the moments of emerging technology that help us to let go of the old ways of doing things and embrace the new, to think in terms of magical wishes.”
“A ‘magical moment’ is that machines can understand our intent beyond just what we know to type.” 
“The danger is we’re not endorsing magical thinking.”
“First we retool, then we reorganize to get our process around that. And then we invent.”

The Jagged Mind: Staying Human in an AI-Smooth World with Paul Ford

AI may be built on language—but according to Paul Ford, we’re still struggling to find the right words to describe what it’s actually doing to our work and thinking. Lou and Paul explore how language shapes our ability to understand—and responsibly use—AI.
Drawing on his dual background in programming and writing, Paul shares a set of evolving “rules” for working with AI: don’t let it replace your thinking, be wary of its tendency to flatter, and build systems that help you verify and structure its output rather than blindly trusting it. He explains how he uses AI to accelerate prototyping and research while still preserving human judgment, creativity, and accountability.
The discussion also zooms out to the broader cultural moment. From skeptical college students to industry hype cycles, Paul argues that people are more discerning than we often assume—and that AI’s impact will play out in diverse, deeply human ways.
Paul will be the opening speaker at the upcoming Designing with AI conference, where he’ll expand on these ideas and introduce new language for navigating this rapidly evolving space.
His takeaway? We’re not at the end of history—we’re in a messy, fascinating transition, and the best we can do is stay curious, thoughtful, and engaged.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why shared language is critical for making sense of AI
How Paul Ford approaches “rules” for using AI responsibly
The risks of AI’s built-in flattery and “smooth” thinking
Practical ways to use AI for prototyping without losing control
Why verification systems matter more than trusting the model
How younger generations actually view AI (less hype, more pragmatism)
Why AI may be powerful—but not as historically radical as we think
How to stay grounded and thoughtful amid rapid technological change
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:11 – Meet Paul
5:30 - Can language keep up with technological change?
12:48 – Paul’s rules for professionals
18:11 - Where is the slippery slope? Paul weighs in.
22:23 - Paul reveals his gift for the audience
23:03 - 5 reasons to use the Rosenverse
25:18 - A story about some NY college students
29:21 - The anger and skepticism toward AI
35:18 - Wrapping up
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Designing with AI conference - June 9, 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designing-with-ai/ 
Shell Game Podcast, by Evan Ratliff podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shell-game/id1753117762 
 
Quotes:
“In a world where product is very easy to spin up, the relationship is getting more and more important.” 
“You can really narrow your risk when you’re working with this stuff, and then you can let it go and see what it comes up with.” 
“There’s ways to mess with this stuff where I think you get to move forward and you get to think your thoughts without letting it take over.” 
“When it gets into that weird social relationship where it’s telling you that was a good idea, that’s where my alarm bells go off.”  
“The native buttering up of these technologies, I think is really dangerous because, God, you always want to hear it, especially when you're a boss.

AI, Human Judgment, and High-Stakes Design with Joy KendiMwiti

As AI becomes easier and cheaper to deploy, designers face a new challenge: deciding not just what can be automated, but what should be. Lou Rosenfeld talks with Joy Kendi of Dalberg Design — and an upcoming speaker at the Designing with AI 2026 conference — about introducing AI into high-stakes systems where design decisions can directly affect access to healthcare, services, and critical resources.
Joy shares examples from her work in public health systems, including an AI concept intended to help community health workers prioritize patient visits. What initially seemed like an obvious efficiency gain quickly raised deeper concerns around incomplete data, shifting real-world conditions, and the irreplaceable role of human judgment and community trust. Rather than treating AI as a decision-maker, Joy argues for designing systems where AI supports — but does not override — human expertise.
Their conversation also explores how AI is reshaping the role of designers themselves. Joy makes the case that designers must move “upstream” in the process, helping define boundaries, risks, trust, and governance before automation decisions are made. 
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
How Joy Kendi defines “high-stakes” design systems
Why automation can fail in public health contexts
The risks of relying on incomplete or outdated data
Why AI should support human judgment, not replace it
How designers are moving upstream in AI decision-making
What human-centered AI governance can look like in practice
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:11 - Meet Joy and learn about high-stake systems
3:26 - Joy’s backstory
6:10 - Seeing beyond the everyday facade
8:55 - Why you need the Rosenverse
11:08 - Designing responsible AI for high-stakes public health decisions 
16:06 - Why human judgment still matters in AI-assisted decision-making 
18:29 - Designers must shape AI boundaries, not just interfaces 
22:06 - Joy’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Designing with AI 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designing-with-ai/ 
 
Quotes:
“When I say high stakes systems, I mean systems where the design choices carry very real consequences beyond the typical interface or screen that a lot of designers are used to.”
“The hardest question is not just can we build this tool. It’s also deciding whether we should automate some of these complex social decisions at all.”  
“Even when the quality of data is good, and the data is available, there's more complexity to how human beings make decisions. A lot of that is also based on the social dynamics.”

Designing for Privacy in a Surveillance Age with Robert Stribley

Privacy concerns didn’t appear overnight—they’ve been building quietly alongside the technologies we rely on every day. Lou and Robert Stribley, author of Design for Privacy, explore how digital tracking, AI, and data sharing have reshaped the way personal information moves through the modern web.
Robert traces the growing privacy challenge from early internet tracking to today’s complex ecosystem of smartphones, online services, and AI systems. While many users understand that they’re trading data for convenience, few grasp how widely their information is distributed—or how easily supposedly anonymous data can be re-identified. As AI accelerates the ability to combine and analyze datasets, those risks are growing quickly.
Then the conversation turns to what designers can do about it. Robert outlines practical ways UX professionals can improve privacy outcomes, from collecting less data and avoiding deceptive patterns to improving language transparency and giving users meaningful control over their information. Despite the scale of the problem, Robert argues that designers have more agency and influence than they realize. Thoughtful design decisions can help protect users while also strengthening trust and long-term business success.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why privacy concerns have intensified with smartphones, AI, and online tracking
How “anonymous” data can often be re-identified through data aggregation
Why users have conflicting attitudes about personalization and data tracking
The role UX designers can play in improving privacy protections
How deceptive design patterns (including cookie banners) manipulate user consent
Why clearer language and better privacy tools can give users meaningful control over their data
Quick Reference Guide:
0:15 - Meet Robert, Lou’s neighbor
1:51 - How Robert got into the privacy field
5:06 - Perceptions of privacy and the concessions we make
8:01 - Terms of Service - we accept them blindly - and why that can be risky
15:54 - 5 Reasons to use the Rosenverse
18:39 - What designers can do about data privacy
28:08 - Privacy tools and potential tools for users
32:38 - Robert’s gift for listeners
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Design for Privacy: Keeping Personal Information Private by Robert Stribley https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/design-for-privacy/
Block Party app https://www.blockpartyapp.com/
404 Media https://www.404media.co/
The Capture https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8201186/
 
Quotes:
“We have created these patterns that make it very easy to get involved with those experiences, all the while you're surrendering your data.” 
“I don't think most people understand the degree to which that information is spread around and with whom it's spread around.”
“Whenever you are utilizing people’s data, really think about what you’re doing with it and be able to justify it.” 
“When you understand deceptive patterns as manipulative, you can’t stop seeing them everywhere.” 

Why OKRs, Agile, and Their Ilk Fail with Jeff Gothelf

AI is reshaping product development faster than most organizations can even rethink how they work—and that gap sits at the heart of this conversation with product design guru Jeff Gothelf. Lou and Jeff explore why proven methods like Agile and OKRs so often become “process theater” instead of real change, and what it actually takes to shift organizations from output-driven cultures to outcome-driven ones.
Jeff explains that most transformations fail because incentives still reward shipping outputs, not creating real value. Meaningful change tends to emerge only in pockets led by leaders willing to experiment and treat ways of working as something to test and evolve.
They also explore how AI is shifting risk upstream—from engineering to vision, validation, and decisionmaking—making design and research more critical than ever. Along the way, they reflect on consulting as organizational therapy, the need to prove design’s value in the AI era, and why companies that relentlessly embrace new technology are best positioned to endure.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why Agile, OKRs, and similar frameworks often fail to create real change
The critical shift from measuring output to measuring outcomes
The two traits shared by successful pockets of transformation in large companies
How to run small, time-boxed experiments to change ways of working at scale
Why AI makes design, research, and product thinking more valuable
How to explain and prove the value of “thinking before the prompt” in AI-driven organizations
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:10 - Meet Jeff Gothelf; Lou and Jeff discuss bridging the gap between ritual and cultural change
7:44 - Good ideas without a clear understanding of why
9:42 - What it takes for organizations to successfully communicate and incentivize 
15:21 - 5 reasons to use the Rosenverse
17:37 - Consultants validate insiders; AI shifts risk toward design clarity
24:20 - AI speeds output, but critical thinking, research, and testing prove designers’ value
27:50 - Jeff and Lou speculate on Amazon’s future
30:49 - Jeff’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Books by Jeff Gothelf https://jeffgothelf.com/books/ 
Ignorance by Milan Kundura https://www.amazon.com/Ignorance-Novel-Milan-Kundera/dp/0060002107 
 
Quotes:
“The types of conversations that we're having about good design, about good information architecture, about good research, about agility and customer centricity and all of those types of things, for some reason, those continue to be difficult conversations in organizations today.”
“The risk of engineering is no longer a risk, not like it was not five years ago. It's going to get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. Where's the risk? The risk is in definition, vision, clarity, validation. In other words, it's in design, discovery, research, product management.”
“The differentiation, the uniqueness, the creativity, the innovation is going to come from the critical thinking of the designers and the researchers who are actually doing the thinking before the prompt.”

Rethinking Design Careers in a Broken System with Jen van der Meer

Jen van der Meer’s career path is anything but linear—spanning comparative religion, working on Wall Street, internet startups, and design education. In this thoughtful and timely conversation, Jen shares how her liberal arts background shaped her global perspective, eventually leading her to leadership roles at Frog Design, startups, and now Parsons School of Design, where she co-directs the MFA in Transdisciplinary Design.
Jen challenges designers to go beyond the narrow scope of their titles or craft. Instead of trying to “convince” other industries of design’s value, she argues that designers must step outside their professional comfort zones, learn new languages—especially finance—and see themselves as co-conspirators in systemic change.
With today’s precarious job market and the erosion of traditional design roles, Jen offers a compelling vision for designers to build collective practices, join interdisciplinary communities, and find purpose in transforming complex systems like health, energy, and finance. Her advice to students and early-career professionals? Focus on a system that needs fixing and start connecting with others who care.
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why a degree in comparative religion gave Jen an edge in global finance
How working on Wall Street pushed her toward systems-level design work
Why design can’t change the world without engaging with business
The importance of shifting from a role-based professional identity to a personal design practice
How to build a resilient career by focusing on systems, not job titles
Why transdisciplinary design programs may offer a model for the future of education
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:15 - Meet Jen van der Meer 
3:17 - Escaping finance for design
7:35 - Why designers should learn finance
11:44 - The challenges of blurred roles and learning the language of your sector and practice
14:33 – Jen’s job advice for students
19:57 - 5 reasons to use the Rosenverse
22:18 - Transdisciplinary design trends 
29:11 - Possibilities within Jen’s Parsons program
32:33 - The realities of higher education today and scaling the transdisciplinary model of education
36:12 - Jen’s gift for listeners
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Parsons Studio https://www.newschool.edu/parsons/faculty/jen-van-der-meer/ 
Jen van der Meer’s website https://jenvandermeer.org 
Rosenverse https://rosenverse.rosenfeldmedia.com/ 
 
Quotes:
“Comparative religion is a fantastic entry point to navigating the world.”
“That’s what I’ve been working on for the last 10 years. How can I see finance as design territory?”
“We’re not here to convert people. We’re here to work together with other people to transform the systems that we’re in.” 
“I think design pedagogy, studio practice, surveys, all of it is the answer to university education.”

Why the Future Belongs to Research “Makers” with Kate Towsey

AI isn’t just changing research tools—it’s reshaping how research itself happens. Lou chats with ResearchOps pioneer (and co-host of the upcoming inaugural UXR Tools Summit) Kate Towsey about the shift from linear workflows toward interconnected research systems where recruiting, knowledge management, repositories, and insights all function as part of a single ecosystem. Kate argues that future organizations will rely on “insights lakes,” structured collections of knowledge that anyone can query through AI interfaces, making research continuously accessible rather than locked behind reports.
The discussion explores how tool vendors are evolving toward integrated platforms, why taxonomy and information architecture are even more essential in an AI-driven world, and how research operations professionals are becoming critical connectors across teams and technologies. Rather than replacing researchers, AI may free them to focus on identifying knowledge gaps and proactively generating insight. Kate ultimately offers an optimistic perspective: the future favors makers and experimenters—professionals willing to play, adapt, and help shape how AI is used responsibly within research practice.
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why research workflows are shifting from linear processes to interconnected systems
How AI is enabling “insights lakes” that make organizational knowledge searchable and reusable
The growing importance of taxonomy, metadata, and information architecture in AI-driven research
Why research ops roles become more critical—not less—in an AI future
How research tool ecosystems may evolve into both integrated platforms and specialized stacks
Why experimentation, play, and maker mindsets are key skills for researchers navigating rapid change
 
Quick Reference Guide:
1:19 - Meet Kate Towsey
2:27 - About the UXR Tools Summit
3:56 - Participant recruitment is just one piece of research ops
9:01 - Research tooling shifting toward ecosystems, not single solutions
13:50 - Knowledge management evolves into AI-powered insights infrastructure
19:56 - 5 Reasons to use the Rosenverse
22:20 - AI sparks creative renewal for makers
28:13 - Kate’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Kate Towsey’s website https://katetowsey.com/
Research That Scales by Kate Towsey https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/research-that-scales/
Cha-Cha Club https://chacha.club/
Research Ops Review https://www.theresearchopsreview.com/
UXR Tools Summit https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/program/#tab=day-3
A Work in Progress by René Redzepi https://www.amazon.com/Work-Progress-Journal-Ren%C3%A9-Redzepi/dp/0714877549
 
Quotes:
“Even with the power of AI, brilliance is going to be needed.” 
“People who are makers by nature are having a whale of a time. They’re seeing lots of space for opportunity, for building, for reinventing.”  
“It’s less about whether you’re a researcher or designer and more about whether you’re a maker and an experimenter.”
“There needs to be an element of play — making mistakes and building things that don’t work.”

Why Research Repositories Need Humans (and AI) with Maria Rosala

What happens when someone moves from government UX research to shaping research for the broader industry? Lou talks with Maria Rosala, Director of Research at Nielsen Norman Group, about her role, her career path, and the value of research repositories.
Maria shares what it means to lead research at NN/g and how her experience as a UX researcher in the UK Home Office shaped her perspective on research maturity and real-world practice. They explore how research repositories help organizations surface knowledge, avoid duplicate work, and support collaboration—and why people and culture remain just as important as the tools. Maria also discusses how AI could make repositories more powerful by surfacing connections and insights.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
What the Director of Research role at Nielsen Norman Group involves
How government UX work shaped Maria’s perspective on research maturity
Why research repositories help organizations reuse and share knowledge
Why research librarians and curators remain essential even with AI
Where AI could improve research repositories in the future
A book recommendation on qualitative research analysis
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:10 - Meet Maria Rosala and learn about the UXR Tool Summit
3:23 - What it’s like being the research director of Nielsen-Norman
7:58 - Gauging and comparing research quality
10:18 - How the volume of research at Nielsen Norman compares to the Home Office in the UK
15:54 - What’s special about the Rosenverse and the Rosenbot
18:10 - What research repositories do for organizations
22:08 - Why we need both tools and a culture that is curious and collaborative
27:07 - Thoughts on surfacing and utilizing AI in defined, constrained spaces but with a human architect
33:31 - Maria’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
The Coding Manual for Qualitative Researchers by Johnny Saldana https://www.amazon.com/Coding-Manual-Qualitative-Researchers-Third/dp/1473902495 
Advancing Research 2026 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-research/ 
 
Quotes:
“Because we're very small, we do have a lot of oversight of the research that we're doing.”
“People would go through and critique the design and say, ‘Why have you designed it like that?’ And you would need to have a good reason.”
“It's about ensuring that research can be consumed by not just the immediate team that are doing it to inform some of the key decisions that they're trying to make, but that it could potentially benefit others who might be thinking about that problem in a slightly different lens.”
“I think people are going to continue to play an important role, regardless of AI implementations in curating and drawing connections.”