Rosenfeld Review Podcast

Designing for Learning and Complexity with Jen Briselli

Jen Briselli’s journey into service design didn’t start with design at all—it started in a physics classroom. From studying the fundamental workings of the universe to teaching high schoolers how to grasp complex physics concepts, Jen’s interdisciplinary curiosity has always driven her path. That same intellectual agility eventually led her to discover information design, dive headfirst into Carnegie Mellon’s legendary design program, and eventually rise to executive leadership at Mad*Pow. Now co-founder of Topology, Jen continues to explore how systems thinking, complexity science, and human-centered design intersect to build adaptive organizations.
In this episode, Jen and Lou preview her upcoming talk at Advancing Service Design 2025 and unpack why learning—not certainty—should be the North Star of design practice. She shares how service designers can operate more effectively by zooming out to see systems-level patterns and zooming back in to take practical action. From breaking down spatial and temporal complexity to explaining how constraints inhibit organizational learning, Jen reframes service design as an adaptive, constantly evolving practice. Whether you're a seasoned designer or simply service-design curious, this episode will stretch your thinking about what service design is—and what it can become.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
How service designers can apply complexity science and systems thinking to their everyday work
Why adaptive organizations need learning-focused design approaches, not rigid frameworks
The difference between spatial and temporal complexity—and how each affects your design choices
How to recognize and remove the constraints that prevent organizational learning and change
What Jen learned by transitioning from physics to design, and how that background still shapes her work
Why service design is evolving beyond traditional boundaries—and what it takes to practice it effectively today
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:19 - Meet Jen and learn how a grocery-store encounter changed the course of her career
6:35 - Jen decided to pursue a Masters in Design at Carnegie Mellon 
12:14 - 5 Reasons you should be using the Rosenverse
14:54 - Jen’s talk at Advancing Service Design, “Learning is the North Star: Service Design for Adaptive Capacity,” inspires us to zoom in and out 
18:17 - Navigating time and space
23:54 - The role of systems thinking
26:44 - Adaptive capacity and learning
33:59 - Jen’s gift for the audience
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Advancing Service Design virtual conference - November 19-20, 2025 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/advancing-service-design/ 
Oblique Strategies The book: https://www.amazon.com/Oblique-strategies-hundred-worthwhile-dilemmas/dp/B0000EEZG9 
The physical cards: https://enoshop.co.uk/products/oblique-strategies?variant=51221629501780
 
An online generator: https://stoney.sb.org/eno/oblique.html
 
More info from WIkipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oblique_Strategies
Quotes:
“Dick Buchanan is my cult of choice when it comes to how I orient myself to thinking about the practice of design.”
“Good teachers are all good designers.” 
“Get in the habit of asking ‘what’s happening?’ a little earlier.” 
“Get good at not needing to predict the future because you can adapt so effectively.”
“Imagine or anticipate what are a few steps further - second, third, fourth order consequences of things.” 
“Expand a little earlier and a little later in your timeline and see what that uncovers. Do the same thing with your spatial maps.”

Elevating Design and Scaling Expertise with Scott Zimmer

Scott Zimmer’s career arc spans from dreaming big at Disney to reshaping design inside massive enterprises through acquisitions like Capital One (AdaptivePath) and Verizon (Moment Design)—and now, to scaling expert knowledge with AI through his startup, Tmpt.me. In this episode, Lou and Scott dig into what it takes to earn design a seat at the table, how to read a company’s culture before you join, and why expertise shouldn’t disappear when the expert leaves the room.
If you’ve ever wondered how to build design credibility in a skeptical organization, how to scale expert mentorship without burning out your top people, or how AI might actually amplify—not replace—human wisdom, this episode is for you.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why centralized design teams matter
How to evaluate whether a company is truly design-ready
Why bridging business and design doesn't require an MBA
The power of organizational literacy in design
What to expect post-acquisition when integrating agencies into corporations
How democratization of design tools isn’t a threat—but an opportunity
What Scott is building with his new company, Tmpt.me
The subtle importance of provenance and weighting in expert AI agents
Quick Reference Guide:
0:00 - Meet Scott, a combination designer and business guy
4:26 - The surprising ingredient for effective communication across divisions
7:08 - The markers of an empathetic, effective workplace 
12:07 - The 9th DesignOps Summit 
13:15 - Centralizing design and research teams can reshapes culture and careers
19:01 - How to balance centralization with design democratization
24:18 - The AI project Scott is working on now
31:10 - How Tmpt.me handles citations and source weighting
34:19 - Scott’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Tmpt.me https://www.tmpt.me/ 
Ideaflow: The Only Business Metric that Matters by Jeremy Utley and Perry Klebahn https://www.jeremyutley.design/ideaflow
 
Quotes:
“Centralizing...makes all the difference in the world.”
“ Interdisciplinary teams are the winning teams. But if each of those disciplines has their own org, then that org can nurture and produce the strongest players in that discipline.”
“The more a design organization can teach engineering, product, business their design method, the more those other teams will ask for designers to represent that method rather than themselves moonlighting it.”

The Staff Designer with Catt Small

What if your next big career move didn’t involve managing people—but managing impact? Catt Small joins Lou to unpack the rise of the staff designer: a role that's redefining what senior-level growth can look like for designers who want to lead without becoming managers.
Catt shares insights from her forthcoming Rosenfeld book, Staff Designer: Grow, Influence, and Lead as an Individual Contributor, where she draws on her own experience at companies like Etsy, Asana, and Dropbox—alongside interviews with nearly 30 other design pros—to clarify a path that’s increasingly relevant in today’s flattened organizations.
Catt explains why staff designers thrive at the intersection of strategy and execution, influence and diplomacy. Staff design isn’t about hierarchy; it’s about navigating complexity, guiding quality, and mentoring others, all without direct reports. Whether you're a senior designer wondering what’s next or a leader trying to support IC career growth, this episode reframes design leadership for the modern era.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
What defines a staff designer and how the role differs from senior design or management
Why diplomacy, influence, and communication are core to the job
How the staff designer role supports cross-functional strategy without direct reports
Ways the role enables mentorship and growth for other ICs
Why this path is increasingly relevant in today’s flattened design organizations
How Catt’s book offers actionable tools, illustrations, and exercises for growing in the role
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:10 - Meet Catt and hear why she wrote a book
2:45 - Catt’s path from senior designer to staff designer to author
4:21 - Senior designer vs staff designer
6:46 - Staff designer as diplomat
13:33 - The 9th DesignOps Summit – September 10-11, 2025
14:32 - The tricky dynamic of guiding without managing
19:20 - Rethinking design roles for 2025
24:27 - Catt’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Staff.design https://staff.design/
The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership by Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman, and Kaley Klemp https://www.amazon.com/15-Commitments-Conscious-Leadership-Sustainable-ebook/dp/B00R3MHWUE 
Staff Designer: Grow, Influence, and Lead as an Individual Contributor by Catt Small https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/the-staff-designer/ 
 
Quotes:
“A staff designer is everything that a senior designer is, but more.” 
“When you’re a staff designer, you are essentially unstucking the entire team.” 
“There’s a lot of growth that senior designers usually experience when they get to work directly with staff designers.”  
“It’s interesting because you’re trying to figure out how to be a peer but also lead people.”
“You are essentially designing how you want to show up.”

Breaking Scripts and Building Confidence with Nathan Gold

If you’ve ever felt nervous holding a mic, or wondered how seasoned speakers make it look effortless, this episode is for you. Nathan Gold, professional speaker coach, and longtime collaborator with Rosenfeld Media, has helped presenters at every level find their voice and captivate audiences.
In his conversation with Lou, Nathan reflects on over a decade of working with Rosenfeld conference presenters—researchers, design leaders, ops people, and more—as they prepare to step into the spotlight. He shares how effective communication isn’t just about slides or scripts, but about presence, intention, and treating your talk like a gift to the audience. Whether coaching polished speakers or total newcomers, Nathan’s approach is rooted in empathy, trust, and helping people show up as their most authentic selves.
From embracing improv to ditching the word-for-word script, Nathan’s advice speaks to anyone who wants to connect more meaningfully—on stage, in a meeting, or behind the camera. This episode is packed with insight for designers, leaders, and communicators of all stripes.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why designers often underestimate how different public speaking is from day-to-day communication
What makes high-level speakers still want coaching—and what they get out of it
A technique Nathan uses to help speakers ditch their scripts (without losing their message)
How to build audience trust, even when presenting remotely
The secret value of improv training in high-stakes presentations
What makes a talk “nourishing” instead of just noise
How to translate complex design ideas into compelling, human-centered storytelling
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:10 - Meet Nathan
2:26 - Nathan’s path from impromptu teacher to the go-to demo guy to communications coach
7:51 - Are some speakers “naturals”?
10:28 - Nathan’s secret: his meeting with an improv facilitator
12:07 - Toastmasters vs improv
15:04 - Why you need the Rosenverse 
17:20 - Guiding design leaders from nervous to natural onstage
24:37 - When your presentation is virtual and you can’t see your audience
28:41 - Slides or no slides? And outlining vs mind mapping
33:23 - The power of storytelling and focusing on the audience 
36:09 - Nathan’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
The Moth https://themoth.org/listen 
 
Quotes:
 ”The ‘uh’ is really good and a needed tool when you're in a big debate with a group of people around the table. So there is a good use for it. But not when you are holding the microphone and nobody can take the floor away from you.” 
“ If you want to improve your skills, whether it's a formal presentation or just a peer presentation, or like we're doing here – we're just having a conversation – go to improv.”
“A hook is a great way to start, but it’s not the only time you want to get them involved.”
“Think of what you’re doing here as not just a bunch of words and slides, but as a gift to the audience. This is a gift you are giving people so that they can go home and become the heroes in their situation.”
“Just tweaking some of what they say, making it more about the audience, makes their value much higher.”

Navigating the AI-Driven Shift in DesignOps with Aletheia Delivre

Design operations is increasingly about navigating a moving target. AI-infused tooling is upending established models, and the pace of change is forcing teams to rethink everything from handoffs to team dynamics to what quality even means.
As systems fracture and new patterns emerge, Ops leaders are stepping into roles that feel more like architects than managers—shaping the blueprint for how design and engineering build together in real time.
One of those leaders is Aletheia DeLivre, Senior Program Manager of Design Engineering Collaboration & Strategy at Microsoft, and a featured speaker at the upcoming DesignOps Summit. In this conversation, she and Lou unpack how AI is disrupting workflows, accelerating timelines, and reshaping power dynamics between disciplines.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why traditional workflows are breaking—and what might take their place
How conversational UI and AI prototyping shift the meaning of "done"
Why design–dev collaboration could become more co-creative than ever
How to rethink “quality” in a world where speed often wins
Why ops professionals are moving from managers to architects and guides
The emotional burden ops leaders carry as they steer teams into the unknown
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:12 - Introduction of Aletheia and non-linear journey
4:27 - AI forces design ops to reimagine itself
6:50 - AI is rewiring design-dev collaboration
9:23 - AI delivers speed, humans deliver craft
13:51 - The ninth virtual Design Ops Summit - September 10-11
15:35 - Design Ops as system architecture and conduction
19:10 - Design Ops as ethical pathfinders
25:11 - Aletheia’s gift for listeners
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
The Design Conductors by Rachel Posman and John Calhoun https://www.thedesignconductors.com/ 
The Worlds I See: Curiosity, Exploration, and Discovery at the Dawn of AI by Fei-Fei Li https://www.amazon.com/Worlds-See-Curiosity-Exploration-Discovery-ebook/dp/B0BPQSLVL6 
Design Ops Summit - September 10-11, 2025 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designops-summit/ 
Quotes:
“There’s a quality-time ratio. I think this is where humans still have an edge – the refinement of the craft.” 
“AI is great to get us from idea to prototype, but we still see a lot of gaps.” 
“Once you refine it into production-level code, I think that’s where there’s still something missing in terms of  the level of craft, the adherence to your principles, your design system componentry, and pattern reusage.”
“We are both the conductors and the architects.” 
“ The power and potential of AI is so high that it behooves us as humanity to develop AI in a way that doesn't replace humans but enhances them.” 

Scaling Design Leadership, from Chaos to Clarity with Doug Powell

What does it take to transform a century-old tech giant into a design-led organization? Doug Powell—executive coach, former IBM design leader, and featured closing speaker at this year’s Design Ops Summit—joins Lou for a wide-ranging conversation on scaling design, building community, and leading through unpredictable change.
Doug shares hard-earned lessons from IBM’s ambitious and trailblazing design transformation from the mid-twenty-teens: how centralization jump-started progress, why decentralization required careful timing, and what metrics ultimately proved design’s business value. Along the way, he offers thoughtful advice for today’s design leaders and ops pros who are navigating evolving roles and growing complexity.
Whether you’re leading a design team or supporting one behind the scenes, Doug’s insights are a must-hear for anyone shaping the future of design operations.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
How IBM went from zero to thousands of designers, and why centralization was the critical first step
The risks of decentralizing too soon and how IBM managed the shift through a hybrid model
Why community and culture matter in onboarding, especially for early-career designers
The metrics that matter most in design ops, including alignment, velocity, risk mitigation, and ROI
How to assess organizational conditions before choosing metrics and why a one-size-fits-all approach doesn’t work
Framing questions for design leaders to ask themselves to better align investments in ops with the maturity of their teams
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:15 - Meet Doug Powell
5:23 - Reflections on IBM
7:40 - Lessons from scaling design at IBM
11:50 - Timing design org transitions
19:20 - Lessons from early chaos
22:10 - Design Ops Summit 2025
23:05 - Metrics that matter most
27:57 - Tailoring metrics to context
30:36 - Diagnose before you measure
33:08 - Doug’s gift for listeners
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
“DesignOps: Start with the Right Questions” by Doug Powell
https://dougpowelldesignleadership.substack.com/p/designops-start-with-the-right-questions 
A Different Kind of Power by Jacinda Ardem https://www.amazon.com/Different-Kind-Power-Memoir/dp/0593728696 
 
Quotes:
“ In order for this to thrive, the business needs to take ownership of and responsibility for the designers, their headcount, and also their output.”
“ I don't think I fully appreciated how important that bond, that connection, that cultural energy would be until we got into this program by a couple of years.”
“ They're really committed to this company and this culture that we've built at a level that I frankly didn't expect.”
“ There are a dozen or more different diagnostic questions that we should be asking to determine what are the right set of metrics that we should be applying.”

The Intersection of Game Development and User Experience with Cheryl Platz

What do video games and world-building have in common? Everything. Lou reconnects with Cheryl Platz—author, designer, and creative director—to explore the evolving world of video game development. Cheryl shares what drew her back to the gaming industry after years in enterprise UX and voice design, and how her new book, The Game Development Strategy Guide, distills insights across disciplines to help teams build modern games that truly thrive.
The conversation ranges from the power of cross-functional collaboration to the benefits UX skills bring to game development to the monetization models shaping today’s games. Cheryl reflects on the challenges facing the industry—massive layoffs, misaligned incentives, and a lack of shared understanding—and how a more human-centered, sustainable approach could be a game changer. Whether you're a UX professional, game developer, or just curious about what makes great video games tick, this episode offers a sharp, wide-angle view of where the field is headed.
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why traditional UX skills transfer powerfully to game development
The critical role of onboarding, perception, and player motivation in game design
How communication breakdowns across teams and publishers derail game success
Why so many modern games fail—not because of content, but because of friction in experience design
What it means for a video game to be “sustainable” in an era of microtransactions and live service models
How self-expression and community drive the economics of successful games
Why studios must embrace authenticity and player feedback—especially in an AI-driven future
What makes Cheryl’s favorite indie game, Blue Prince, a model of sustainable design
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:14 - Meet Cheryl
4:00 - The intersection of UX and game development
9:12 - Communicating design value to non-designers
13:17 - What sets top game studios apart: vision, community, and embracing ambiguity
17:01 - How UX helps games stand out in crowded genres
21:38 - 5 Reasons you need the Rosenverse
24:01 - What sustainability really means in live-service games
30:54 - Cheryl’s gift for the audience
 
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
The Game Development Strategy Guide by Cheryl Platz https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/game-development-strategy-guide/ 
Blue Prince https://www.blueprincegame.com/ 
 
Quotes:
“This book is about us trying to define the industry we want to see because the industry we have is no longer working.”
“Capitalism isn’t engineered to like hard things.” 
“ Players want that authenticity. They want to know that they're supporting actual creators and not just something that was randomly generated by AI.” 
“I cannot overstate how important self-expression is in live service games.”

DesignOps is Design with Jose Coronado

Jose Coronado — DesignOps Is Design
Recording 
Passcode: n5VOS0+Q
 
Design operations isn’t just about process—it’s about shaping better products, teams, and organizations from the inside out. José Coronado joins Lou to unpack why DesignOps deserves to be treated as a true design discipline. Drawing on his experience leading global teams at JPMorgan Chase, Target, and beyond, José shares strategies for embedding operational roles into business units, measuring impact, and scaling design without sacrificing quality.
They explore how enterprise UX has evolved since the iPhone, why service design is the right lens for thinking about internal operations, and what it takes to foster effective cross-functional collaboration. The conversation offers a preview of José’s upcoming panel at the 2025 DesignOps Summit—and plenty of practical insights for DesignOps professionals at any stage of their journey.
 
What You'll Learn from this Episode:
Why José believes DesignOps is design, not just a support role
How the consumerization of enterprise software changed the game for UX
What enterprise UX offers that consumer design doesn’t—and why it matters
How DesignOps leaders can show impact and justify investment
The role of service design thinking in shaping scalable internal operations
Key cross-functional challenges when integrating DesignOps, ResearchOps, ContentOps, and ProductOps
A practical framework for professional development across design teams
The two main barriers holding back DesignOps pros—and how to overcome them
Why aligning ops roles with business units (vs. management buckets) can make all the difference
Resources and thought leaders to follow for career growth in design
 
Quick Reference Guide:
0:10 - Meet Jose 
1:51 - From physical design to digital discovery
3:29 - The complexity (and opportunity) of enterprise UX
7:44 - Why DesignOps IS design
9:16 - Why service design is a good lens for DesignOps
11:57 - The many paths into DesignOps—and who it’s really for
15:37 - Can DesignOps shed its cost center label?
18:04 - The ninth Design Ops Summit – September 10-11, 2025
19:15 - All the Ops: specialization vs. integration
23:49 - Elevating horizontal practices and professional development
28:42 - What holds DesignOps back?
31:18 - Jose’s gift for listeners
Resources and Links from Today's Episode:
Design Ops Summit - September 10-11, 2025 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/designops-summit/
Tom Scott: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomscottt/
Silke Bochat: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bochat/
Lena Kull: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-kul/
Quotes:
“If you can be successful in a complex environment like financial services, a top 10 bank in the world, you can basically take your skills anywhere to any problem.” 
“Design operations is design, full stop.”
“Design operations enables the organization to increase the impact or the efficiency of the processes and the products and services that we put out in the marketplace.”